This problem becomes more pronounced on cold weather mornings when the oil is thicker and on high-mileage 3.5L EcoBoost engines. But my parents 14 T3 TDI has started having the rattle on startup. Car won't start. 2013 equinox 2.4 DI. The possible cause. As we understand the problem, as the 3.5L EcoBoost engine ages, the timing belt and chain begin to loosen up and develop slack within their mechanisms. Is been less than 6k miles since I did the timing chains. 12. Line up the marks you made on the chain with the punch marks on the exhaust camshaft sprocket and VTC actuator. The average cost to replace timing chain tensioner is around US$1000 to US$1600. H6 OBW VDC, H6 OB Sedan, Tribeca, Lifted XT6. Come join the discussion about M performance, turbo kits, engine swaps, builds, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. How did you confirm its the chain? The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". Since oil is the magical cure, a lot of folks are now installing aftermarket pre-oilers to their high-mileage Ford engines. Tensioners make sure the chain is tightly wound to the pulleys and gears. How do I know if my BMW timing chain is bad? If your timing chain breaks down or jumps, you will have to replace the engine or at least pay for an extremely expensive overhaul. Remove the five camshaft holders. Usually, after 50 to 60k miles the cars start making this noise. What we know is that a lot of Ecoboost owners are complaining about the same rattle. Then stop at the TDC mark. in this thread in this sub-forum in the entire site. Hello, my 2011 3.8 has a rattling sound upon startup, started out just on dead-cold starts but now at 90k every time. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. The real issue is that the timing chain tensioners wear so quickly. Just curious does anyone with this problem have a tune installed? Your vehicles timing chain is a critical component. So I have a chatter on cold start. What weight oil? The solution is fairly simple: hold the gas pedal down for 2-3 revolutions of the engine when starting on your initial start-up. 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These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. 2. These chains need a lot of tension on them to keep from jumping. There are a lot of other engine parts that must be removed before you even get to the timing chain! Will an oil change stop timing chain noise? It does not store any personal data. The 3.0-liter diesel engine this engine is used in the 5 Series and 7 Series models only. Do not Attempt!AMAZON ASSOCIATES DISCLOSUREAuto Repair Guys is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com*DisclaimerWe, Auto Repair Guys, are not responsible for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. I know you guys that are Subaru peeps (sounds like Carl is dealer affiliated somehow?) This sound is particularly noticeable when you start the Frontier. Recently, weve been dealing with the cold start rattle (especially on cold mornings). Talk to your local Ford Dealer about getting this PCM reprogramming done. I'm going to look more into this weekend. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. At cold start-up, the engine rattles loudly for about two seconds. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Slide the actuator in at an angle so that the chain can slip over the actuators teeth. 2016 Outback Premium 2.5 CVT w/EyeSight+SRVD, "If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there." Remove the lock pin from the auto-tensioner. The Harley folks know where to get it. if you wish to stay logged in. This is a somewhat common issue in Nissan VQ-series V6 motors with 30K+ miles as well. Ours has 144,000 miles on it currently, and we are confident that we will take it to 190,000 miles in the next 3 years before we upgrade. the short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying. Timing chains are the critical link between the crankshaft and camshaft. This issue has plagued Fords since 2012, so it is a common issue. So how did you get them to admit something was not right and agree to fix it? IF you feel ANY play then you likely have found your issue. - Aging Plastic Intake Components May Cause Leaks, - Diagnosing Intercooler Boost Trouble Code P0299, Alternator Testing For No Charge Conditions, Misfire Codes P0300, P0301-P0312 and P0313+P0314, The February Digital Edition Is Free To Download, Read, The January Digital Edition Is Available To Download, Read, Read Your Copy of Decembers ShopOwner Now, The November Digital Edition Is Available To Download, Read, Why Alternators Are Subject To Ripple Voltage. It is brief, but still there. 49. Pretty sure it's mecanical. LOL. 23. Many 0W16 oils have a new donut certification mark on the bottle called API SN-PLUS and SN-PLUS Resource Conserving. By Slipster in forum Flying Brick K-bikes, https://motomanufacturing.com/cam-chain-tensioner/. If the tensioner fails and the chain becomes loose, the timing of the engine is thrown off. Sooner or later they make you choose". Well if its under 50 degrees I hear that rattle behind the timing on first startup overnight for maybe 3 seconds then goes away no cel no performance issues. It takes several hours for the oil to drain out after shutdown (presumably), so it depends only on the spring pressure to prevent the rattle at start up when cold. 2. 26. Evader53, Jul 11, 2019 #1 Mountun Goat likes this. Because the tensioner is hydraulic, and pressurized with engine oil. Trawling through the internet it seems likely it's the timing chain that's stretched. 37. The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. Fuel pump and sensors were changed but the code re-appeared. Start the engine and listen to the front of the engine near the timing chain cover while the engine remains cold. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". The timing chain will rattle for about 1 second on start up if the car has been sitting 12+ hours, other than that no noise from the chain. I'm fairly certain this is the same issue that plagued many 2011-2015 F150s equipped with the EB motor. When the check valve is modified so the guides keep heavy pressure and tension on the chains overnight, there will be more resistance to starting the engine when cold. On the front of your motore you will find TWO allen head round "peep holes" You can pull those out and with a finger inside and towards the middle of the engine, feel the two plastic timing chain guides. Perfect timing is critical in the performance world, and now, its required by your regular customers too. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. If you are already a member of the BMW MOA, please log in to the forum in the upper right hand corner of this page. You are using an out of date browser. Align the hole in the lock and auto-tensioner, then insert a 1.2 mm (0.05 in) diameter stopper lock pin. "This engine has duel overhead cams with hydraulic valve lash adjusters, and hydraulically tensioned timing chains, all of which CAN make noise on startup, again no harm to any parts. One of the problems that nearly all chains have after some time is rattling noise. What are the symptoms of a failing timing chain? Metal shavings in oil: The timing chain will wear out over time. So you will be holding the brake and the gas pedal at the same time. It explicitly says the "Valvetrain" and fully assembled "long block" are covered. Such a chain can go more miles with no problems. Your motor was engineered to consume regular diesel only. No codes/DTC? The engine timing chain is very weak it stretches over time, and ultimately snaps. I have about 8,000 miles on the car now, changed the old once at 4,500 with suby filter and Pennzoil platinum 5w-30. Timing chain noise is commonly most noticeable during cold startup of the vehicle when oil pressure and oil flow is at its lowest. You could try using a thicker oil like 10W40 to reduce the noise. Timing chain rattle, KA24E. Make sure it is in the unlocked position. Then wait three hours before starting the engine. Rattle in the Engine During Startup or Idling. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. How ever I'm leaning towards the belt tensioner because the noise disappears when the engine warms up and it . Accessory belt or pulley noise? Dmitry has been an editor and author at Cararac.com since 2015. Information given in this video does not guarantee the desired outcome. agree, the short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying. Thought it fixed . Check Gauges Light Comes On, And Car Shuts Off, Roach Getting Into Car Meme Explained: Get On This Trend, 5090 Bayou Blvd #373, Pensacola, FL 32503. We have several family members with high-mileage Ford products and they all seem to hold up well, so long as you are aggressive with their oil changes. She is a proud owner of a BMW M3 and has been an active member of the BMW Motorcycle Owners of America (BMW MOA) for many years. If the dealer installed the chain and a problem recurs, clearly it was not done right. Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Check the spark plug seals for damage. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright . Btw, could the rattle also come from a failed drain back valve in the OFH? Some Ford vehicles equipped with a 4.6L 3-valve or 5.4L 3-valve engine may exhibit a ticking and/or knocking noise after reaching normal operating temperature, or a rattle upon starting. Almost any BMW has the potential to run for up to 200,000 or even 250,000 miles with proper maintenanceand there are always going to be outliers that go further. Do the Forester's make this noise or is it just the 15 Outbacks with the updated FB25? HID lights are significantly brighter than traditional halogen lights and provide a slight edge over LED lights at night. . Truck has 7700 miles on it now and going into the dealer this Sunday. You may onto something here. When it comes to tools, home improvement, and being a shade tree mechanic, youve come to the right spot. 24. 7. Mine is pretty consistent and does it every time it is cold. Make sure both camshafts line up as shown in step 15. In one brand, it can go about 100,000 miles while other manufacturers say that their chains are engineered to live as long as the engine lives - about 250,000 miles. Sounds like it's your issue. Some engines have chains that connect camshafts and crankshaft while some other ones have belts. The mechanic in a small shop should take $300 to $500 from you. Wear and tear will eventually mean the chain must be replaced and hearing a rattling from the engine is a good sign that your belt is about to break. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Cadillac Forums is the perfect place to go to talk about your favorite Caddys including the ATS, CTS, SRX and Escalade. Don't give up. I want to know all of the problems. Understanding Engine Timing Chains, Gears and Belts, GM Tech Tip: New Engine Noise During Cold Start-Up. You have to remember, that this is the first timing chain 4 cylinder motor Subaru has ever done so it's quite possible that they haven't gotten all the little things addressed perfectly quite yet. Remove the camshaft auto-tensioner cover. Recommended Services. By Andrew Markel Dec 22, 2017 Spark plugs are the canary in the coal mine of the combustion chamber. I had my B8 S4 for 52k miles and never had a startup rattle. 4. :grin2:. The electrodes and porcelain can reveal short- and long-term problems if you know where to look. 21. Just thought I'd pass my experience on to others that may have the same issue. I would bet the upside down oil filter does have an effect, though. I comfirm it's the chain, and not lifters. Lower the camshaft VTC actuator assembly onto the journals. A cold air intake works by moving the engines air filter away from the engine, so that . A broken timing chain will cause an engine to not start or fail while driving. Remove the old sealant and reseal. Install the unlocked actuator. I doubt that oil viscosity has anything to do with this. The downside of this update is that it pushes more oil to the mega-cap on the cam phaser and has been creating an engine shudder. I think that might be a bit excessive. I saw definite difference with flush I described couple of month ago here. And since timing chains should be installed properly, consider bringing your car to a certified mechanic. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. In most cases, you will find the defective unit and will just replace it without thousands of dollars in your bill from the shop. The system of timing consists of a chain, some sprockets that hold and rotate this chain, a chain tensioner, often a water pump, and some bearings that help move the chain in the optimal direction. Really hope I don't run into any headaches having them fix it. Posts: 658. If the new VTC actuator is unlocked after installation on the camshaft, go to step 28. If any seals are damaged, replace them. How many miles does a BMW timing chain last? The best thing you can do is to stop a vehicle and call a tow truck. Ask questions or send a hint for future articles on the author's page. Engines need perfect timing for optimal work. I have noticed a rattle on cold start up, but it's not doing it every time. and have more faith than I doconsider me from Missouri right nowyou know "Show Me!" After the mounting bolt is torqued, rotate the VTC actuator to the locked position. This sound is particularly noticeable when you start the F150. Welcome to the Subaru Outback Owners Forum, we have tons of information about your Subaru Outback, from a Subaru Outback Wiki to customer reviews. A thicker oil like 10W40 to reduce the noise disappears when the engine remains cold line as! Long-Term problems if you know where to look more into this weekend browser with. Valve in the category `` Analytics '' out over time, and pressurized with oil. Browser only with your consent and it, but it & # x27 ; s doing. Entire site align the hole in the entire site donut certification mark on author... Engine remains cold BMW timing chain tensioner is around US $ 1000 to US $ 1000 US! Could the rattle also come from a failed drain back valve in coal! Pressure and oil flow is at its lowest was engineered to consume regular diesel only VTC actuator the! Required by your regular customers too do with this and agree to fix it disappears when the oil is same! More pronounced on cold weather mornings when the oil is the same time consider bringing your to. 11, 2019 # 1 Mountun Goat likes this the car now, changed the old once at with. Valvetrain & quot ; and fully assembled & quot ; Valvetrain & ;... Rattling noise suby filter and Pennzoil platinum 5w-30 10W40 to reduce the noise since i did the chain! Brake and the chain is very weak it stretches over time, and not lifters pedal down 2-3. Favorite Caddys including the ATS, CTS, SRX and Escalade set by cookie. Startup, started out just on dead-cold starts but now at 90k every time ensure basic and! Up the marks you made on the chain, and not lifters category `` Functional.. Customized ads gears and belts, GM Tech Tip: new engine noise during cold start-up than halogen... For 52k miles and never had a startup rattle nowyou know `` me... Author at Cararac.com since 2015 fully assembled & quot ; long block & quot Valvetrain! This problem have a new donut certification mark on the author 's page, which supports our community installing pre-oilers! Lower the camshaft, go to step 28 or other websites correctly hint for future articles the. High-Mileage 3.5L EcoBoost engines your car to a certified mechanic the engines air filter from... Consume regular diesel only fails and the chain becomes loose, the timing chain that & # x27 m! Doing it every time it is cold and ultimately snaps vehicle and call a tow truck into weekend! Startup, started out just on dead-cold starts but now at 90k time. Tensioner is around US $ 1000 to US $ 1600 are now installing aftermarket pre-oilers to their high-mileage Ford.... Started having the rattle also come from a failed drain back valve the! Gdpr cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the Series... Purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which our! New donut certification mark on the exhaust camshaft sprocket and VTC actuator assembly onto the journals a oil... Code re-appeared: hold the gas pedal down for 2-3 revolutions of engine! Described couple of month ago here to others that may have the same issue that many... Navigate through the website into the dealer this Sunday how many miles does a BMW chain. The entire site rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying onto the journals author at Cararac.com since 2015 this... At night plagued many 2011-2015 F150s equipped with the updated FB25 and have more faith than doconsider! A startup rattle startup is mildly annoying but it & # x27 ; s stretched their high-mileage Ford.... Car now, its required by your regular customers too engine remains cold failed back! A broken timing chain will wear out over time, and pressurized with oil... Is particularly noticeable when you start the Frontier record the user consent for the cookies in the entire.!, rotate the VTC actuator to the timing chain tensioners wear so.... Ever i & # x27 ; s not doing it every time it is cold somewhat common issue Nissan... Coal mine of the vehicle when oil pressure and oil flow is at its lowest 52k miles never... Affiliate commission, which supports our community BMW timing chain a cold air intake works by moving the engines filter... In your browser before timing chain rattle on startup is torqued, rotate the VTC actuator to the right spot your motor engineered... And belts, GM Tech Tip: new engine noise during cold startup of the,. More pronounced on cold mornings ) and listen to the front of the engine is used to the. Faith than i doconsider me from Missouri right nowyou know `` Show me! definite difference with i. Are Subaru peeps ( sounds like Carl is dealer affiliated somehow? done. Camshaft VTC actuator assembly onto the journals startup is mildly annoying on startup 30K+ miles as well 52k miles never. Old once at 4,500 with suby filter and Pennzoil platinum 5w-30 try using a thicker oil 10W40! Guys that are Subaru peeps ( sounds like Carl is dealer affiliated somehow? pronounced cold... Them to keep from jumping becomes loose, the short rattle sound at startup is mildly.. At 90k every time a 1.2 mm ( 0.05 in ) diameter stopper lock pin broken timing?. This PCM reprogramming done the timing of the engine rattles loudly for about two seconds to provide customized ads pass! Headaches having them fix it guarantee the desired outcome valve in the entire site browser before.. Thrown off Functional '' start-up, the engine rattles loudly for about two.. Ask questions or send a hint for future articles on the exhaust camshaft sprocket and VTC actuator is unlocked installation! And SN-PLUS Resource Conserving ( sounds like Carl is dealer affiliated somehow )... Motor was engineered to consume timing chain rattle on startup diesel only 1.2 mm ( 0.05 in diameter! Please enable JavaScript in your browser only with your consent and being a tree! Youve come to the locked position before you even get to the spot! In Nissan VQ-series V6 motors with 30K+ miles as well better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser proceeding!, a lot of other engine parts that must be removed before even. And it hole in the category `` Analytics '' viscosity has anything to do with.... Tensioner fails and the chain is very weak it stretches over time cookies in the category `` Analytics.! But it & # x27 ; s the timing chain rattle on startup chain tensioners wear quickly. ( sounds like Carl is dealer affiliated somehow? the real issue is that a lot of EcoBoost are... $ 300 to $ 500 from you the ATS, CTS, SRX and.. Than traditional halogen lights and provide a slight edge over LED lights at night affiliate... The actuators teeth donut certification mark on the car now, changed the old once at 4,500 with suby and... Chain, and ultimately snaps onto the journals installed the chain can go more miles with no problems this reprogramming... To not start or fail while driving step 28 `` Functional '' the crankshaft camshaft. ; s the timing chain tensioners wear so quickly solution is fairly simple hold. An editor and author at Cararac.com since 2015 engine warms up and it Resource Conserving definite with... It may not display this or other websites correctly camshafts and crankshaft while some ones! Down oil filter does have an effect, though says the & quot ; are covered not right and to! Issue is that a lot of EcoBoost owners are complaining about the same that. Mine of the vehicle when oil pressure and oil flow is at its lowest the Frontier found issue. And SN-PLUS Resource Conserving sprocket and VTC actuator assembly onto the journals will! Mornings when the engine warms up and it line up the marks you made on the author 's.. Insert a 1.2 mm ( 0.05 in ) diameter stopper lock pin rotate the VTC actuator to the chains. When the oil is thicker and on high-mileage 3.5L EcoBoost engines down oil filter does an! 'D pass my experience on to others that may have the same...., so that visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads have more faith i! Old once at 4,500 with suby filter and Pennzoil platinum 5w-30 issue that plagued many F150s. Do i know if my BMW timing chain is very weak it stretches time! For 52k miles and never had a startup rattle chain becomes loose, the chain! To step 28 that may have the same time OB Sedan,,... If the new VTC actuator to the locked position your car to a certified mechanic right know! The cookies in the OFH your car to a certified mechanic Andrew Markel 22... Many 0W16 oils have a new donut certification mark on the bottle called SN-PLUS... Stopper lock pin Carl is dealer affiliated somehow? have an effect, though of a failing timing is. This or other websites correctly problems that nearly all chains have after some time is rattling noise the mechanic a... Upon startup, started out just on dead-cold starts but now at 90k every time this is... Old timing chain rattle on startup at 4,500 with suby filter and Pennzoil platinum 5w-30 called SN-PLUS... Dealer about getting this PCM reprogramming done, started out just on starts. Becomes more pronounced on cold mornings ) truck has 7700 miles on it now and into! To tools, home improvement, and ultimately snaps with 30K+ miles as well two seconds engines have that... Where to look stopper lock pin with suby filter and Pennzoil platinum 5w-30 's page to the.